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Hope for Islam?
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Eric Metro
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:46 pm    Post subject: Hope for Islam? Reply with quote

I like to dream that Islam will eventually reform itself to an authentic "religion of peace". It certainly does not exist now, nor has it ever.

The best idea I have heard so far is to eliminate the Median verses of the Koran (warlike and hostile and very intolerant), and to place emphasis on the Meccan verses (more poetic and spiritual). The understanding is that MOHAMMED needed to conduct his life in that phase, similar to the way the Israelites originally deposed of the very corrupt inhabitants of Caanan.

Torah is a bunch of very real, sometimes uncivilized people trying to be good people, making mistakes, and them fixing them (is it not better to learn from others mistakes?) Perhaps Mohammeds incredible aggression can be looked as such, for acting out of fear, rape, or penalty of death to join a religion is horrible.

Islam originally was practiced by our cousins (I am Jew) the Ishmaelites and Edomites (Esau's descendants). We are directly related. I'd like to think that while these relatives of ours departed from us, but kept their faith in God, and that somehow warlike people perverted Islam and took advantage of Mohammed, and his illiteracy, creating verses to support their immoral desires. Mohammed is supposed to be a direct descendant of Ishmael, so I am very partial to this idea. Ishmael and Esau are two of my very favorite characters in the Torah. It has been decreed in Midrash and Talmud that Ishmael was given land south of Israel, so Mecca makes sense.

Baha'i, as well as Sihkism both draw from Mohammed. To my knowledge they at least more peaceful than Islam. Researching these two religions may spark some hope.


In it's current form, Islam is absolutely unacceptable.
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DifferentDrummer
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dream that Muslims, Jews & Jesus-worshipers will ALL wake up & realize that their cults are pure bullshit.
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Kenkajin 2.0
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DifferentDrummer wrote:
I dream that Muslims, Jews & Jesus-worshipers will ALL wake up & realize that their cults are pure bullshit.
RAmen
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djjagdish
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cosigned with DD. There is no religion of peace and probably never will be. Humans have always and always will perpetrate inhumane and barbaric acts in the name of God, Jesus, Allah, and whoever else you want to name.
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prozacrefugee
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

djjagdish wrote:
There is no religion of peace and probably never will be.


Incorrect sir!



And I here am declaring a jihad upon Pastafarians, in the name of J.R. "Bob" Dobbs.
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Eric Metro
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

djjagdish wrote:
Cosigned with DD. There is no religion of peace and probably never will be. Humans have always and always will perpetrate inhumane and barbaric acts in the name of God, Jesus, Allah, and whoever else you want to name.


Or any politician, or business man, athiest or anyone with free will who wants to do so in their own name.

Look at how many people were murdered by Stalin and Mao. Left-wing Atheists.

I'm sure you ladies will look smashing in your hijabs. Rolling Eyes

Religion and power; Abusus non tollit usum.
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prozacrefugee
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eric Metro wrote:

Look at how many people were murdered by Stalin and Mao. Left-wing Atheists.


Both were actually quite right wing within their parties - both were extremely authoratative rather than liberal. 1968 in France was highly anti-Soviet as well as anti de Gaulle.
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voiceofTruth
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Christianity does more to help its fellow man than any other religion. Bottom line.
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Eric Metro
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

prozacrefugee wrote:
Eric Metro wrote:

Look at how many people were murdered by Stalin and Mao. Left-wing Atheists.


Both were actually quite right wing within their parties - both were extremely authoratative rather than liberal. 1968 in France was highly anti-Soviet as well as anti de Gaulle.

And still Left-wing Atheists.
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Kenkajin 2.0
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

voiceofTruth wrote:
Christianity does more to help its fellow man than any other religion. Bottom line.
Proof?
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MustafaQBrainmender
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kenkajin 2.0 wrote:
voiceofTruth wrote:
Christianity does more to help its fellow man than any other religion. Bottom line.
Proof?
THEGREATSPIRITOFTHEFREEMARKET!
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prozacrefugee
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eric Metro wrote:

And still Left-wing Atheists.


Left wing in relation to what? Your false dichotomy implies that Western left-wing parties support the authoritarianism of Mao and Stalin, something that's simply not true.
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Eric Metro
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

prozacrefugee wrote:
Eric Metro wrote:

And still Left-wing Atheists.


Left wing in relation to what? Your false dichotomy implies that Western left-wing parties support the authoritarianism of Mao and Stalin, something that's simply not true.

Communism is a Leftist ideology. It is even further left than the Democratic party which is also Leftist. Please disperse with the needless semantics.

A Communist murderer further to the Left of Mao and Stalin could only have been worse.

Mao and Stalin were both Atheists who each murdered millions of people. All religion combined has killed less people. Unless Atheism is a religion?
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prozacrefugee
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 2:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eric Metro wrote:

Communism is a Leftist ideology. It is even further left than the Democratic party which is also Leftist. Please disperse with the needless semantics.

A Communist murderer further to the Left of Mao and Stalin could only have been worse.


Yeah, the Green Party of the UK is surely just hiding their real agenda of gulags. Rolling Eyes Pelosi and Obama are going to have us on a five year plan. They're left-wing, right?

Quote:

Mao and Stalin were both Atheists who each murdered millions of people. All religion combined has killed less people. Unless Atheism is a religion?


Christ, you're an idiot. Add up the 30 years war, the Crusades, the Muslim invasion of the Balkans, and all the other religious wars people have been fighting for the last 4000 years, and you're going to be way above the totals for Stalin and Mao.

Stalin, by the way, launched his purges supposedly to remove the left wing Troskyites. Again, your blanket term of 'left-wing' is simply so broad as to be meaningless and falsely equative of ideologies which simply don't agree.
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Eric Metro
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 3:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

prozacrefugee wrote:
Eric Metro wrote:

Communism is a Leftist ideology. It is even further left than the Democratic party which is also Leftist. Please disperse with the needless semantics.

A Communist murderer further to the Left of Mao and Stalin could only have been worse.


Yeah, the Green Party of the UK is surely just hiding their real agenda of gulags. Rolling Eyes Pelosi and Obama are going to have us on a five year plan. They're left-wing, right?

Quote:

Mao and Stalin were both Atheists who each murdered millions of people. All religion combined has killed less people. Unless Atheism is a religion?


Christ, you're an idiot. Add up the 30 years war, the Crusades, the Muslim invasion of the Balkans, and all the other religious wars people have been fighting for the last 4000 years, and you're going to be way above the totals for Stalin and Mao.

Stalin, by the way, launched his purges supposedly to remove the left wing Troskyites. Again, your blanket term of 'left-wing' is simply so broad as to be meaningless and falsely equative of ideologies which simply don't agree.


A welfare state is a welfare state, Comrade. Rolling Eyes

Do not confuse military action with political ideology.

--

Hitler practiced occult rituals, so he was not an Atheist. However he was a Leftist so I'm still posting his numbers. - Had Hitler lived he might have converted to Islam. He was very fond of the Grand Mufti.

You do not need to include Hitler in the comparison.

--


Mao Ze-Dong: 49-78,000,000 people

Jozef Stalin: 23,000,000 people

Adolf Hitler: 12,000,000 people


Your numbers?
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