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Peter Schiff predicts Obama will destroy economy
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katykaboom
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Kenkajin 2.0
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So how are everyone's 401Ks doing?

Aren't all of you disappointed that Bush didn't privatize Social Security?

Unemployment will probably hit 10%.

Horrible horrible shit storm is on the horizon.

We are fucked.
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Angel Bobby Peru
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
We are fucked.


thanks to greed which is inherent in our capitalist society. I'm not sure if worshipping money is only just as bad as worshipping a mythical, invisible man in the sky, or much worse.
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prozacrefugee
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another rebuttal of the accusation that the fed or government spending is somehow the culprit here:



Now here's why voiceOfRand keeps getting yelled at to go back to school - debt to anyone in a fractional reserve system (every bank since the late 1500s in other words) actually creates new money, the exact same way the fed does.

The fed's primary job is actually holding the banks reserve rates high enough to prevent insolvency. Of course when the deregulationists allow the GREAT SPIRIT OF THE FREE MARKET out you get ways around that, such as CDOs which dropped reserves from about 10% to less than 2.5% in many companies. Which is why we now have a completely insolvent banking sector.
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prozacrefugee
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another explanation of deflationary cycles led by bank failures:

Quote:
What we've since learned, much to our sorrow (particularly those of us who are, or at least were, Citigroup shareholders) is that saying the banks "owe it to themselves" isn't much help if they all decide simultaneously they want themselves to pay themselves back. Because the unwinding of all that leverage, while it might not directly bankrupt the banks (although some will fare worse than others in the process) has a direct, immediate and powerful effect on asset values -- which most definitely can bankrupt them and us, too.

This is the process that an economist of the Great Depression era, Irving Fisher, labeled "debt deflation": As banks shrink their balance sheets, money and credit contracts. As money and credit contracts, prices (first of assets, then of commodities, labor and everything else) start to fall. Falling prices (deflation) increase the real value of outstanding debts while at the same time reducing the cash flows needed to service those debts. This forces more borrowers to default, forcing banks to shrink their balance sheets even more, causing prices to fall farther and faster. Rinse and repeat, until the banks (and the economy) are laying flat on their backs, with little tags attached to their big toes.

We've been down that spiral once before, and the results were sufficiently terrible to leave the next two generations of Americans with a morbid fear that it might happen again.

But now -- even as the Great Depression has faded almost from living memory (allowing a new generation of conservative ideologues to lie with impunity about its causes and cures) -- there is a very definite risk that it will happen again.


http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/2/22/11528/2240/518/700197
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voiceofTruth
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
March 5 (Bloomberg) -- The Federal Reserve Board of Governors receives daily reports on bailout loans to financial institutions and won’t make the information public, the central bank said in a reply to a Bloomberg News lawsuit.

The Fed refused yesterday to disclose the names of the borrowers and the loans, alleging that it would cast “a stigma” on recipients of more than $1.9 trillion of emergency credit from U.S. taxpayers and the assets the central bank is accepting as collateral.

Fed secrecy was the focus of a Senate Banking Committee hearing today in which the panel’s top two members said the central bank’s reluctance to identify companies benefiting from the American International Group Inc. bailout risks undermining public confidence in the government.



http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=washingtonstory&sid=aG0_2ZIA96TI
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prozacrefugee
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you understand the difference between the financial bailout and the stimulus package?
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voiceofTruth
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes you highbrow geek. The pro worker "stimulus plan" which is nothing more the veiled pork and the bailout which is fundamentally rescuing bankers from there own folly. Its all over the news . Your boy is destroying things at such a great pace that even the wall street journal and bbc news have said the 20% drop in the dow is a direct result of Obamas policies.

Quote:
President Barack Obama now has the distinction of presiding over his own bear market.

The Dow Jones Industrial Average has fallen 20 percent since Inauguration Day, the fastest drop under a newly elected president in at least 90 years, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. The gauge has lost 53 percent from its October 2007 record of 14,164.53, slipping 4.1 percent to 6,594.44 yesterday.

More than $1.6 trillion has been erased from U.S. equities since Jan. 20 as mounting bank losses and rising unemployment convinced investors the recession is getting worse. The president is in danger of breaking a pattern in which the Dow rallied 9.8 percent on average in the 12 months after a Democrat captured the White House, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.

“People thought there would be a brief Obama rally, and that hasn’t happened,” said Uri Landesman, who oversees about $2.5 billion at ING Groep NV’s asset management unit in New York. “It speaks to the carnage that’s in the economy and the lack of confidence in the measures that have been announced.”

A bear market is defined as a decline of 20 percent or more.

Buying shares “is a potentially good deal” for long-term investors, Obama said March 3. He compared daily fluctuations to a tracking poll in politics and said he wouldn’t adjust his policies just to meet market expectations.

Congress last month enacted Obama’s $787 billion package of tax cuts and spending on roads, bridges and public buildings. His 2010 budget indicated the government’s financial rescue may need another $750 billion after an initial $700 billion.



Quote:
“Obama should be listening to the stock market more than talking to it,” said Kenneth Fisher, the billionaire chairman of Woodside, California-based Fisher Investments Inc., which oversees $22 billion. “He hasn’t gotten out of the gate well.”


He's a disaster.
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A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks.
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prozacrefugee
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

voiceofTruth wrote:
Yes you highbrow geek. The pro worker "stimulus plan" which is nothing more the veiled pork and the bailout which is fundamentally rescuing bankers from there own folly.


Christ, really, get a spellchecker. If you're going to resort to badly phrased insults it REALLY helps to have the sentences following them spelled correctly.

"veiled pork" - what exactly does that phrase mean, aside from spending? I've shown numerous times in this thread why spending is needed to avoid a deflationary spiral. Since you haven't refuted any of those points I assume you agree, so how then are we supposed to increase spending without increasing spending?

The bailout is moronic, as I've said numerous times. The insolvent banks need to be taken into receivership, i.e. nationalized and sold off later.

Quote:
Its all over the news . Your boy is destroying things at such a great pace that even the wall street journal and bbc news have said the 20% drop in the dow is a direct result of Obamas policies.


Learn to fucking read, your article doesn't say anything is a result of Obama's policies, you fucking idiot. This is the only point made in your (typically) unsourced article.
Quote:
“People thought there would be a brief Obama rally, and that hasn’t happened,”


OMG Obama hasn't fixed the last 8 years in 2 months! HE'S A DISASTER!
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voiceofTruth
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What the "stimulus plan "really is.

Quote:

$650 million for people to convert their TVs from analog to digital
$21 million to resod the National Mall due to damaged incurred during the coronation
A combined $78 million to renovate the Dept. of Commerce and Dept. of Agriculture HQ's
$5.2 million for community development block grants (gotta pay back ACORN for all those fraudulent votes, right b. hussein?)
Approx (not sure of the exact number) $300 million for sexually transmitted disease testing
$600 million for govt. vehicles
$87 million for a polar icebreaking ship (hmmm..."global warming," anyone?)
Some very dangerous provisions that will compromise America's ability to develop health care techonologies (kind of a back door attempt to begin the assault on our health care system)
And, oh yes, let's not forget the doorknobs, dog park (I think in CA), and prostitute housing. I don't have the exact spending numbers on these, but they were detailed on Hannity last night.



Lol owned, alot of jobs coming from this spending? The deflation is needed to devalue assets and eliminate bad debt. The markets will stabilize housing once prices are affordable. Your scare tactics of a deflationary spiral is highly effective in scaring everyone into unsound spending. In the midst of this, calling for 410 billion dollar spending bill is a absolutely crazy. Job creation is needed, just dont see how the bullshit listed above will acheive that.

[/quote]
_________________
A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks.
Thomas Jefferson
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prozacrefugee
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

voiceofTruth wrote:

Lol owned


FREE MARKETS!

Quote:
alot of jobs coming from this spending? The deflation is needed to devalue assets and eliminate bad debt.


If by assets you're referring to CDOs, they're already devalued, that's the problem. They never had real value, and right now they're trading for about 4-40% of purchase price. Which means the capital that went into buying them is gone. The bad debt is the difference between what was paid and what the assets are worth - one persons debt is another's asset. As banks all deleverage though it shrinks money, again leading to the deflation spiral I've illustrated numerous times (and to which your only argument has been NAH-UH! RON PAUL FREE MARKET GREAT SPIRIT).

Quote:
The markets will stabilize housing once prices are affordable.


Housing has lost its bubble value already, and is going further down still (overbuilding did create an oversupply, so those prices are going to stay down for a while as well). The question is without a job who's going to buy these cheap houses? THE GREAT SPIRIT OF THE FREE MARKET?

And the reason I keep telling you to go take macro or STFU - markets are quite capable of stabilizing at sub optimal points. A market with a 50% unemployment rate and 50% of its factories empty can be quite stable, but it's not a great situation is it?

Quote:

Your scare tactics of a deflationary spiral is highly effective in scaring everyone into unsound spending.


It's not a scare tatic, it's simple economics. Go look at the great depression again if you want to see what happens in a deflationary spiral.

Quote:
In the midst of this, calling for 410 billion dollar spending bill is a absolutely crazy. Job creation is needed, just dont see how the bullshit listed above will acheive that.


Wait, you mean the 1.2% of the bill you cherry picked above?

Even the bad examples above create jobs. $87 for an icebreaking ship? OK - how does that ship get built? Right - they HIRE people (i.e. create jobs) to construct the ship, HIRE people to test it, and HIRE people to crew it. $300 million for STD testing? That HIRES lab techs to perform the tests.

Oh, and are you really incapable of listing a fucking source?
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voiceofTruth
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
illusion that Barack Obama will lead from the economic center has quickly come to an end. Instead of combining the best policies of past Democratic presidents -- John Kennedy on taxes, Bill Clinton on welfare reform and a balanced budget, for instance -- President Obama is returning to Jimmy Carter's higher taxes and Mr. Clinton's draconian defense drawdown.

Mr. Obama's $3.6 trillion budget blueprint, by his own admission, redefines the role of government in our economy and society. The budget more than doubles the national debt held by the public, adding more to the debt than all previous presidents -- from George Washington to George W. Bush -- combined. It reduces defense spending to a level not sustained since the dangerous days before World War II, while increasing nondefense spending (relative to GDP) to the highest level in U.S. history. And it would raise taxes to historically high levels (again, relative to GDP). And all of this before addressing the impending explosion in Social Security and Medicare costs.



Lol

Quote:
Unfortunately, our history suggests new government programs, however noble the intent, more often wind up delivering less, more slowly, at far higher cost than projected, with potentially damaging unintended consequences. The most recent case, of course, was the government's meddling in the housing market to bring home ownership to low-income families, which became a prime cause of the current economic and financial disaster

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123629969453946717.html
_________________
A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks.
Thomas Jefferson
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prozacrefugee
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Notice how Boskin doesn't include any numbers? Yeah, that's because he's lying in almost all the points there - for instance, taxes relative to GDP and as a rate were much higher from 1942 - 1980 on the upper 1%, and Obama's plan does not raise taxes on anyone making under 200,000 a year.

Points too for repeating the simply wrong lie that low-income housing (and laws from the Carter era about it) is somehow at the root of the housing bubble. Low-income homeowners actually have a lower default rate than the average - and there's no way that forcing loans to a small fraction of a percent of homeowners could inflate a bubble. Removing debt risk (supposedly) through CDOs did that quite easily though - and that's something we can thank Phil Graham for.

Oh, I do love this:
Quote:
He chaired the Council of Economic Advisers under President George H.W. Bush.


Remember "it's the economy, stupid?". H.W. was better than W., but not by much.
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voiceofTruth
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The markets' recent precipitous decline is a reaction not just to the absence of any plausible bank rescue plan, but also to the suspicion that Obama sees the continuing financial crisis as usefully creating the psychological conditions -- the sense of crisis bordering on fear-itself panic -- for enacting his "Big Bang" agenda to federalize and/or socialize health care, education and energy, the commanding heights of post-industrial society.

Clever politics, but intellectually dishonest to the core. Health, education and energy -- worthy and weighty as they may be -- are not the cause of our financial collapse. And they are not the cure. The fraudulent claim that they are both cause and cure is the rhetorical device by which an ambitious president intends to enact the most radical agenda of social transformation seen in our lifetime.


http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/03/a_dishonest_gimmicky_budget.html

CHANGE!!!!! Thats the only thing that going to be left in anyones pocket. Socialism works great until you run out of other peoples money to spend.
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A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks.
Thomas Jefferson
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prozacrefugee
Riot Nrrd


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah the same old Chuck . . . apparently he's stealing from Maureen Dowd now, and upset that Obama isn't keeping McCain's campaign promises.

Quote:
Forget the 8,570 earmarks in a bill supported by a president who poses as the scourge of earmarks.


No, Chuck, that wasn't THAT ONE.
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